Lewis Black and his Posse: Comedians at the Copyright Barricades

When it comes to the business of copyrights and its protection, one could be forgiven for thinking of comedians as downstairs people compared to musicians. To be sure, this old problem also seems to be a matter of respect as well as money. Not surprisingly, the comedy community these days is trying to do something about it and this time it’s the streaming services that are in their crosshairs for allegedly using their work without paying compensation for it by way of licensing. Enter Lewis Black: the comedian is suing the streamer Pandora in a California federal court for $10 million in copyright infringement damages, for allegedly streaming about 68 of his works without a license. The works in question are comedy recordings.

Black is only the latest comedian to file this sort of claim against Pandora, which is already being sued by comedians like Andrew Dice Clay, Ron White and others, including the estates of George Carlin and Robin Williams.  A win in these lawsuits will be a huge development both in terms of expanding the landscape of available copyright protection and of course turning on an additional money tap for comedians. The other big streamer Spotify avoided similar litigation last year by moving pre-emptively to yank some comedy recording from its platform after it couldn’t agree terms with the copyright holders. In that dispute, Black himself, in a gesture of solidarity with the aggrieved comedians demanded that his own works be taken off Spotify platforms as well. 

But what is really at issue in these cases and can Black and his brethren in fact win?

For starters, it bears explaining that when a work is protected by copyright, it means that the said work is both an “original” creation of the copyright owner as well as a thing that is affixed to a “tangible medium.” The said copyright owner could be an artist, a designer, a writer and more.

Now, though the allegation of the comedians we’re dealing with here is that the streamers are basically not paying for the recording being streamed at all, the question that must ultimately be resolved when it comes time to pay is exactly what particular elements of the comedy “work” should be paid for under a license. In other words, exactly what contents of the work are being licensed by the streamers? (The sort of copyright that comedians hold in their work is known as “spoken-word” copyrights.)  

While the streamers like Pandora and Spotify claim that a comedy recording is a single unified product that should attract only one license fee for the whole work, the comedians, for their part, claim that a comedy recording does in fact have two portions, namely, the recording itself and then the composition, or comedy writing, as separate components. To support their case, the comedians point to the situation with musical copyrights where the license purchaser, say a streaming service, buys and pays for both the musical recording itself as well as the composition of the song lyrics, as separate licenses. This argument was well foreshadowed by Black’s now famous remark that “a joke is just as powerful as a lyric of a song,” with the obvious implication that since the streamers are already paying separately for song lyrics, why not a joke as well.

Then again, one might well ask: if a musical recording and comedy recording are so analogous to each other, how come the two products have been treated so differently for so long and how come the comedians are only speaking up now?

It is worth noting how this question of timing seems to have played into the defense of the streamers as they attempt to fight off the recognition of this additional copyright, namely, comedy writing, which the comedians are seeking. In this regard, the streamers’ argument can be described as one based on tradition, something that some may well perceive as somewhat oppressive.  And it appears to relate to rather philosophical questions about the historical place of comedy in the broader society’s scheme of things and the inevitable value judgments around such questions. In this context, it is common knowledge that comedy’s existing recognition as an authentic art form or rather as “its own thing” is of rather recent vintage.  By contrast, music and the visual arts (think sculpture, painting, et cetera) have long been respected as legitimate art forms with valid claims to their own integrity and thus deserving of protection via things like copyright.      

Now fast forward to contemporary times and it is soon obvious that comedy’s fortunes have changed: with its newfound status as a legitimate art form, basking in the glow of a “golden age,” comedy no doubt has acquired a quite defensible claim to the greater protection of its integrity, just like music and the visual arts. Thus, for the comedy community, there is no better time than now to press this additional claim as part of an overall effort to protect every aspect of their art form and to benefit from it where appropriate. Quite simply, if not now, when?

So, in a manner of speaking, this brings us to a history versus law scenario: the comedy community’s good timing in launching this fight for a bigger slice of the pie is one thing, but whether the court will recognize their claim is quite another, considering the novelty of their claim. Though there is no certainty as to what the court will do, yet, if the comedians can justify their new claims under the law, then history won’t be able to stand in their way and they will win big. As already noted, such a big win will expand the contours of what elements of a work of comedy are protected from infringement and thus available for additional licensing. In this battle for more respect and money it seems like the comedians are the odds-on favorites to win, given the similarity of a joke and a song lyric in this copyright context and the sheer oddness of continuing to treat the two items differently. But, of course, the jury’s still out on the matter.  

The George Carlin Deepfake: Comedy in the AI Crosshairs?

The Artificial Intelligence (AI) crisis across the creative industries apparently shows no signs of slowing down anytime soon and now comedy seems to have been thrown into the mix of its hapless targets. Only this time comedy appears to have won the opening battle in its own war with AI, at least going by the lawsuit that has been in the news lately.   The said lawsuit was the one filed by the estate of the late comedy legend George Carlin, who died in 2008, against two podcasters for their offending use of AI in the violation of his publicity rights and for copyright infringement.   

In the case under discussion, the two podcasters Will Sasso and Chad Kultgen, used “deepfake” technology (which performs a digital imitation of real people) to create an AI character named Dudesy, who mimicked Carlin in a faked comedy special titled “Geroge Carlin: I’m Glad I’m Dead,” which was then posted on YouTube in January 2024. Shortly after the lawsuit was filed by Carlin’s estate in federal court in California, the case was settled on April 1, 2024, with the podcasters agreeing to permanently delete the material from the Internet and to refrain from using his image, voice, or likeness without the appropriate permissions. As of the filing date of the lawsuit, the offending audio routine had garnered more than half a million views on YouTube.

To be sure, the heightened interest of the Carlin estate in the Dudesy comedy special here was entirely predictable. In the recent book “Comedy Goes to Court: When People Stop Laughing and Start Fighting” at chapter Six, (available on Amazon), the author uses the separate cases of the comedian Louis CK and The Three Stooges, to illustrate how the fame of any successful entertainer could continue to generate the “gravy” from any number of sources, including the commercial use of the person’s very name, voice, likeness, and more, even long after the person is no longer alive, in which case the late entertainer’s family or whoever controls their estate takes custody of the copyright to this valuable property interest. Given this, it should not require much imagination to see why the Carlin estate would be quite opposed to the unauthorized Dudesy comedy special, both from a financial point of view or otherwise.      

More broadly, and aside from the concrete concerns of the Carlin estate, the use of deepfake technology in this manner throws into sharp relief the nightmare scenario faced by people in creative industries, including actors, singers, comedians and more, who worry about being displaced from their jobs by AI products in a substitution sort of arrangement that renders them unemployed.  (Recall, for instance, the long SAG-AFTRA strike that ended last fall.)   

The question that then arises is how the newly evolving deepfake technology squares with the law regarding the protection of copyrights and other intellectual property products. In this regard, it bears noting that this sort of unauthorized imitation of a copyrighted product sits at the core of what the copyright law is designed to prevent. And since this imitation by Dudesy is apparently motivated by the commercial interest of the podcasters, it lacks the sort of excuse that could otherwise justify an invasion of someone’s else copyright, typically the “fair use” doctrine, which includes notions of de minimis, market substitution and the like. In the said Carlin audio, Dudesy the AI character explained that he had first “listened to all of George Carlin’s material and did my best to imitate his voice, cadence and attitude as well as the subject matter that I think would have interested him today.” Surely, this indicates that so much of the Carlins’ copyrighted product was taken in the training of the AI character.   

In a nutshell, what we have here with the Dudesy comedy special is a naked invasion of a protected copyright that carries with it a strong probability of unfair market substitution of the copyrighted product, not least because the unwary could be led to think they are getting an actual George Carlin comedy performance.

Also, accompanying the copyright violation in this case is the clear violation of the right of publicity which, as discussed in the book referenced above, is one of the important rights that fall into the estate of a deceased celebrity, and this right is of the sort that simply cannot be utilized by someone in the position of the podcasters without the permission of the copyright holder’s estate.   Long story short, this appears to be an open-and-shut case of copyright violation and publicity rights violation by the podcasters. No wonder the podcasters quit the fight early with a promise to be on their best behavior and not to re-offend. Good riddance, one might say.

So, what, if any, are the lessons here for the creative community? Short answer: AI can be checkmated by the copyright law when it goes too far in the imitation of protected works in comedy and other creative spaces. Same thing for invasion of publicity rights. The flip side here, though, is that not everything is protected by the copyright regime. Thus, AI being an evolving technology may yet find some less brazen way to infiltrate this protected territory and thus cause discomfort, especially if the pesky technology is being deployed not for a wholesale takeover or substitution of the protected material but rather as an aid in the process of creating something else inspired by it.

Yet, if or when that happens, the good news is that due to the increasingly observational and experience-based nature of contemporary comedy, a rather unique and even personal bond tends to develop between comedians and their audiences, a sort of dynamic in which the interposition of AI might be truly problematic. Apparently not so for comparable creative endeavors like movies and music where the odds of displacement by AI seem greater, and this is unfortunate.     

In the end, whether the just-repelled AI invasion of the comedy space will get a second life at some future date or occasion is the sort of question that only time will answer. For now, though, thanks to the Carlin estate lawsuit, comedy sure seems to have won a big victory worthy of a genuine celebration.   

Editor’s Note: The companion book to this blog “Comedy Goes to Court: When People Stop Laughing and Start Fighting“, is now available on Amazon and at bookstores. Go get your own copy of the new bestselling book today and, of course, enjoy the read!